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Post by Visage d'art on May 26, 2007 11:30:37 GMT -5
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edgarsson
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"I wish I were supernaturally strong so I could put right everything that is wrong"
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Post by edgarsson on May 27, 2007 8:12:34 GMT -5
 Oh very interesting topic  ! I understood by it that just the word “sophistication” existing in the original “glamour” definition is enough to show its difference with a presumed modern form of glamour based on nudity which would like to create Playboy magazine as an evolution of our time, morality and rights. If the evolution, according to them, is too be more and more naked and nonchalant like in the prehistoric time, well….we’ve got to worry ;D! Is it just me or…. I think people become more and more crazy. Is it pollution in the air, modern life stress or what  ?? Yesterday, I’ve read an article about Fanny Cottençon saying that more and more women stop to make love because of a kind of modern sex terrorism (in French Marie-France magazine of June 2007, N°148, page 52). I love her  , she’s like Marilyn with more strength…. And in some health magazines, I read all the time (all the year) that we should buy products to have a stronger sexuality. What’s the matter with them? Can’t they let people be natural and cool? On the contrary, I hope they’ll get more time to think . Garbo transmitted this message looking pensive on most of her famous pictures. Marilyn wanted it too.  Greta  Marilyn I just wonder why this confusion? Is it for giving more credibility to what they do? Or to love more easily, everyone becoming naked everywhere like if it was the correct taste? I’m not sure families would agree, it never worked like that, there are enough separated families, you know…   . Edgarsson |
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joanne
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Post by joanne on May 29, 2007 14:42:50 GMT -5
Personally, the thing I don’t understand very well is the difference between “stylish” or “smart” and “sophisticated” because, in the two cases, it’s about being chic.  joanne |
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Post by Visage d'art on May 30, 2007 15:11:58 GMT -5
I agree with you Edgarsson, thanks for your support  Joanne, here are some explanations: - Stylish = you are chic or you have good manners and distinction, for example wearing an impeccable classical look. - Smart = you are chic and you can be judged attractive and beautiful too. - Sophisticated = you are chic and there is a refined detail/effect somewhere in your garment showing that you made a research giving you a special splendour. Thus, the “sophisticated” is considered more complex than the fact of being “refined” which also implies a research. Another example of the glamour word misuse is in the lingerie abusively called “glamour lingerie”. Lingerie can not be glamour because this is underwear too short or light to be sophisticated as you can not go to a chic party with it without to be considered as drunk. I would rather say that lingerie is lovely and can be refined, sensual, sexy or erotic. It is separated from the usual fashion world and it doesn’t reflect strongly fashion tendencies. By the way, I remember when the singers from “The Family” were singing “The screams of passion” just wearing satin pyjamas!! video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=20141&fr= which were rather cool;) I looove those pyjamas!!! The stakes of this confusion of words is that it can reduce the impact of the original glamour style which was a magic fashion from the 30’s-50’s, and making believe that it could have a link with the simple and direct nudity. We need to respect the separation of meanings to make understand better what our intention is and to defend the incredible beauty of the glamour which is an intentional mix of irresistible trumps especially created for the show or fashion world. Love |
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englishfriend
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Post by englishfriend on May 31, 2007 14:55:35 GMT -5
Friends, I agree too, although I understand that some people wish to use the glamour word as an adjective to enhance their products or concept when there is a refined detail in it, but they should really use the “refined” word instead. They can lose customers exaggerating their slogan vainly, causing a less of trust. It can also mean that the girls specialized in the erotic are not considered as having their own domain, their own successful impact, as their productions try to link them by words with the opposite concept which is sophisticated . I know why: because there is less charm in the erotic than in the glamour  … They finally notice it then, like a verdict? Sometimes, I even have the feeling they would like to create a chimera looking like a cow but like a queen . Unfortunately, the charm doesn’t reply to this request. If it is misused, it runs away ;D. The charm is goddess or nothing ;D ;D! Edgarsson, I love Fanny Cottençon too! I’d like to reply to the women who stop to make love (that she’s speaking about) saying the ironical slogan from “Le manège à Bijoux”: “Don’t forget you are the woman of your life. Dare the solitary pleasure.” ;D So fun! english |
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joanne
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"Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening"
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Post by joanne on Jun 2, 2007 16:16:42 GMT -5
Oh well said! Are you a poet!!? You look passionate ! I also noticed the misuse of the qualification “Star”. In the past, we called them “artists” and only the best of them were considered as “Star”.... Now each celebrity is called a star when I read magazines . I’ve got another question: when I see some true glamour photos, for example, those from Marilyn, I don’t always find it sophisticated in the sense “complicated”.    Yet, I can reconnoitre the glamour style. So what do they mean exactly by “complicated”? Joanne |
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Post by Visage d'art on Jun 3, 2007 9:45:44 GMT -5
Hi Joanne, You always ask very good questions Thanks for your interest!! I think the meaning of “sophisticated” is not imperatively as concrete as the fact of having very refined and researched design details on the garment. It can also be more figurative, in the whole effect given when you feel that is reunited grace+spirit+chic on the picture in a very successful mix, at a higher level than any other. The mood or feelings transmitted by the model is important so that the picture can become more complex than a sexy picture. A good example is the pictures where Garbo is melancholic as well as beautiful: she intentionally puts more feelings on it to express the spirit.  The glamour style has been created to make sublime the full personality of an artist. The actresses needed it to avoid to be considered as superficial things because of their beauty. To summarize, the true glamour pictures work more the grace than any other picture. In the case of Marilyn, she showed something complex about the feelings: woman/angel/child/funny/attractive/sad/happy/clever/fragility. I think her expression showed 90% of her glamour style because, just with portraits, she was able to be glamour. Just like Garbo before her, she had the chic stuck into her eyes.  Love |
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edgarsson
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"I wish I were supernaturally strong so I could put right everything that is wrong"
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Post by edgarsson on Jun 3, 2007 10:04:38 GMT -5
You’re right that it’s in the behaviour. For example, in the “Kiss”, Garbo had an incredible glamour way to give the kiss to John Gilbert who was about to collapse... It was really cute, slight, natural and innocent just like the forms of her lips. She was delicate like a poppy and John was carefully preventing the petals from flying away. Then he wanted to marry her just after!!!  = Greta Garbo and John Gilbert in “The Kiss”  = Greta Garbo and John Gilbert in “Flesh and the Devil”. They became together the symbol of the nice couple. In other movies, actors were kissing making a firm fish pout, just like in apnoea, pushing their lips against each other like in a fight, oh ridiculous  ! Or, later, in the 70’s, it became the contrary: they were granting us a very laaarge view of dentist where we could almost guess what they ate for dinner , horrible! Putting a tumbler below the screen, you could almost collect their saliva  ! Bad memories… Edgarsson |
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Post by melody on Jun 9, 2007 11:33:22 GMT -5
Umm. Greta Garbo didn't invite the word 'glamour' did she? She was an actress and with the representation of the characters she felt she could absorb came this moneyspinning thing called 'glamour'. She was beautiful, disdainful and clever. She knew pain and she knew the extremities of testoerone driven behaviour placed upon her as an object desire.
Is it any suprise this highly intelligent woman opted out of the Hollywood money machine at the peak of her powers?
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Post by Visage d'art on Jun 9, 2007 14:21:19 GMT -5
Hi Melody, Yes, I understand what you mean… It’s true, she had to make her way with the possible things in the business and try not to lose her soul! She didn't "invite"/invent the glamour as you said but surely had an influence in the sophistication of the glamour style because of her own complexity. In fact, I prefer to post Clara Bow to explain this style: img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01clarabow01ra7.jpg …because Garbo was rather a mix of splendid/spiritual/sophisticated/melancholic in my opinion. Maybe we should not even qualify her as "glamour"? But when Garbo was very attractive, she could be qualified as glamour; and I find the glamour word interesting to mean a magical image of the beauty easily, so I feel it should be defended for a question of practical description of what we like: a balanced and sublime vision of beauty, an ideal of photography. You’re right that she was clever because she was able to transform the glamour style in what she wanted, something more spiritual, just by expression. Thanks to all for your comments, I have updated my topic to defend the true glamour style, making it more summarized and logical/efficient, adding some of your arguments - thanks Edgarsson for your sharing and kind permission!! You’ve got a great ironical sense of humour! Now I can post this writing to amend the Wikipedia Encyclopedia about the glamour (even if I’m not journalist and not perfect!) and to submit amendments to the Académie Française which rules and protects the words definitions in France (as I live in France). You can read this amended writing at the same link as before: gretagarbo.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=hobbies&action=display&thread=1168179855&page=1Don't hesitate to post arguments if it could help. Glamour kisses |
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englishfriend
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"I live like a monk: with one toothbrush, one cake of soap, and a pot of cream"
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Post by englishfriend on Jun 10, 2007 8:34:52 GMT -5
It must have been a lot of work for you, Clovie! Your writing is great. I see you’re a brilliant person I hope it will work to keep the great place of the glamour intact! I’ll tell you whenever I find new arguments. Call me if you need more support, even for the petitions relating to the issue of a new Dvd Collection of Garbo containing Woman of Affairs, Painted Veil, As you desire me, Susan Lenox, The Kiss, etc... [glow=red,2,300]A lot of love and care for you.[/glow] 8-)English |
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edgarsson
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"I wish I were supernaturally strong so I could put right everything that is wrong"
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Post by edgarsson on Jun 10, 2007 11:44:27 GMT -5
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Oh very interesting topic 
! I understood by it that just the word “sophistication” existing in the original “glamour” definition is enough to show its difference with a presumed modern form of glamour based on nudity which would like to create Playboy magazine as an evolution of our time, morality and rights. If the evolution, according to them, is too be more and more naked and nonchalant like in the prehistoric time, well….we’ve got to worry ;D! 
?? Yesterday, I’ve read an article about Fanny Cottençon saying that more and more women stop to make love because of a kind of modern sex terrorism (in French Marie-France magazine of June 2007, N°148, page 52). I love her 
. 
… They finally notice it then, like a verdict?
! Or, later, in the 70’s, it became the contrary: they were granting us a very laaarge view of dentist where we could almost guess what they ate for dinner 
! Bad memories…
